Introducing - AI and the Law Podcast

Series summary

In this series, 39 Essex Chambers’ barristers,  Katherine Apps KC and David Mitchell interview each other and guests exploring the legal issues raised by AI (artificial intelligence) including what sort of legal regulation is needed, how AI will impact on the legal profession, discrimination challenges, data protection, intellectual property and ownership, contracting issues and the impact on legal education in the future.  Guest include: Baroness Shami Chakrabarti CBE, former shadow Attorney General, I. Stephanie Boyce, former Law Society President, Bernie Maier, Michihiro Nichi Clifford Chance Japan, Professor Catherine Barnard, University of Cambridge, Patrick Brodie RPC LLP. The podcast series is suitable both for qualified lawyers and those who are curious about the law. Episodes released so far are:

• Episode 1 - Introduction

In this episode 39 Essex Chambers CEO introduces the podcast series.  Katherine Apps KC and David Mitchell talk about the issues they will be discussing with their guests in this series. They also define what they mean by AI, types of AI and talk about how they have encountered AI in their practice areas: covering contractual disputes; procurement; public law; human rights; data protection; equality law; defamation and privacy law. Katherine and David also introduce and each try to answer a question they will be asking all of their guests.

• Episode 2 - Lawtech and the legal profession

In this episode Stephanie Boyce, the former President of the Law Society of England and Wales, discusses with David Mitchell the ethical implications of generative AI upon the legal profession including the potential for unlawful bias in its application. On a practical note Stephanie considers how lawyers’ everyday practices might be affected by generative AI and from the point of view of court users, whether lawtech can promote access to justice when parts of the population are digitally illiterate and in regions of England and Wales, there is inadequate broadband coverage.

• Episode 3 - Regulation and AI

In this episode Baroness Shami Chakrabarti CBE, former director of Liberty and former Labour Attorney General 2016-2020, discusses with Katherine Apps KC the sorts of law she thinks is needed to regulate AI and what can be learned from other areas of law. She discusses the UK Government’s White Paper on AI, principles based regulation and how her views have changed since receiving briefings on AI during her role in the  House of Lords.  Shami also talks about what sort of legal regulatory framework might be capable of being developed in the UK while an international consensus is being developed.

• Episode 4 - The Japanese perspective

In this episode Michihiro Nishi, a partner at Clifford Chance in Tokyo discusses with David Mitchell his early experience of AI working as a lawyer in Silicon valley. Michihiro goes on to consider some of the current legal issues surrounding generative AI in Japan, including the lack of regulation and copyright protection which make Japan a “machine learning paradise” and pose a threat to the country’s creative industries including anime and manga. Michihiro also considers the reaction of the Japanese public to generative AI.

• Episode 5 - AI and discrimination

In this episode Professor Catherine Barnard, Professor of EU and Employment Law at the University of Cambridge discusses with Katherine Apps KC how discrimination claims could be litigated in the context of the use of AI.  Catherine discusses existing case law on algorithmic determinations and how the elements of a discrimination claim could be demonstrated by a claimant or organisation. Catherine and Katherine also discuss potential defences and liability by companies and public authority for contractors’ software and how this is likely to be approached.  Catherine also discusses the new proposal for an EU Platform Work directive and the structure used for regulation of algorithmic performance measures and whether it could become a blueprint used in other areas.

• Episode 6 - AI and Legal Education

In this episode Bernie Maier a visiting Professor of Law at Kings College London in Cyberlaw shares his thoughts with David Mitchell on whether the teaching and learning of law will be changed by generative AI and if so, how. 

• Episode 7 - AI and ChatGPT in Law firms

In this episode Patrick Brodie, Head of Employment, Engagement and Equality at law firm, RPC, discusses with Katherine Apps KC the issues raised by use of large language models (LLMs) such as ChatGPT in a law firm environment. Katherine and Patrick discuss what LLMS are, what firms need to think about when drafting AI policies, what LLMs could do in a law firm context, how AI will impact on the training solicitors of the future as well as wider reflections on the nature of being a lawyer, how we deal with fears, worries and opportunities posed by AI, working life generally, and what makes humans different from computers.

• Episode 8 - AI in Commercial Litigation Technology

In this episode Eimear McCann, Commercial Director at Trial view, discusses with Katherine Apps KC the uses of AI in commercial litigation software, both to mine large volumes of data and to generate answers, documents such as chronologies and help make commercial litigation more efficient. Eimear and Katherine also discuss the requirements of different Court rules and wider issues around protecting client confidentiality and what is different between working in the tech world and the legal world.

These episodes are now available on Spotify,  Apple Podcasts​ and Google Podcasts.

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